Interview with Julie A. Swanson, Author of North of Tomboy

Posted by Holly Schindler September 04, 2025

Interview with Julie A. Swanson, Author of North of Tomboy

We're joined today by Julie Swanson, author of North of Tomboy:

For fans of Kacen Callender, Lin Thompson, and Kyle Lukoff, comes a middle grade novel set in 1973 about a child who feels more boy than girl and is frustrated that people act blind to that when—except for her stupid hair and clothes—it should be obvious!

You note this was the first novel you ever tried writing and "a hard one at that." What made it so challenging, and why did you keep at it over the years? What drove you to keep going?

Several things made it challenging. I wanted this to be for middle grade readers who are the age I was when I could've most used this story. And MG books ideally have main characters who are twelve since kids like to read up (so I've read and been told by editors and agents), but my main character was nine-and a half. While I was willing to try to and make her older, this story is semi-autobiographical, and when I rewrote it that way, it didn't ring true that I would've created Mickey at twelve. Even late-bloomer me who still played other types of pretend games at twelve. I didn't play with dolls at twelve, wasn't being given them for Christmas or my birthday anymore at that age either. And my creation of Mickey was such a spontaneous, unconscious thing. It wasn't calculated and manipulative (at first anyway). I didn't know what I was doing; it wasn't premediated. He just bubbled out of me. Kids do things like that--have that innocence and are less self-conscious about imaginative play--more at 8-9-10 than at 11-12. When I wrote the story with Jess at 11-12, Mickey felt too contrived. So I knew I had to make Jess younger than gatekeepers wanted her and that doing so would lessen my chances of people wanting to publish the story.

Finding the best place to begin was hard, too. I kept thinking it had to start at Jess's first memory at two-and-a-half, which made it this epic slice-of-life story that spanned eight years, another thing gatekeepers didn't like. They said MG stories shouldn't span much more than a year's time. ...Once I found where I should begin , it was like Duh. But fitting in all the backstory that used to be there when it started with Jess at two-and-a-half, that was difficult, too. I had to learn a lot craft-wise to do that.

It was also challenging to cut the story back to a length gatekeepers wouldn't roll their eyes over. After decades working on it and getting to know it, I felt the story needed to be a longer one, and, on top of that, I tend to over-write, so it was painful to get it to a manageable wordcount. Even once I'd cut all I felt I could, gatekeepers would say it was still too long for MG, which is why I ended up deciding to go with a hybrid publisher. SparkPress was willing to accept it if I got it under 100,000 words (it's 92,000). I've been paranoid about its length, about what reviewers and book buyers might say about it, but a few years ago I started compiling a list of MG books I'd read and their lengths, and I saw this trend for increasingly long MG books. And in the past few months, going into bookstores, I've been surprised to see how thick the books on the MG shelves are! My book doesn't look too long at all compared to them. And no one who has reviewed it has mentioned its length, so phew.

The story has psychological aspects to it that made it tricky as well. When I started writing it at twenty-three, I thought I understood what Mickey was, why I created him, why I didn't like being a girl, thought I was more boy than girl and would never grow up like girls do. But I learned so much about myself in my 40s, came to deeper and deeper levels of understanding. Jess might be an unreliable narrator, but even though the story's written in first person present tense, I tried to write it in such a way that you can read between the lines and see the truth of things that Jess might not be able to yet. I think readers will get things a bit ahead of Jess so they can see where she's mistaken or confused, and why.

The last thing that made this story challenging was the portrayal of Mickey: how to convey whether he's talking or "on" (acting but not talking) or Jess is, how to describe how he sounds and would say things in his weird little way.

Why did I keep going? I would ask myself that same question when I got discouraged and worried I might never get it right or that no one would ever want to publish it, that maybe I'd wasted all those years working on it. But I felt driven to keep going. Even when I'd take breaks from the story to work on a different one, it would nag at me. I'd think about it, dream about it at night, get ideas, take notes. The story wouldn't leave me alone, and I'd find myself back at it again. I couldn't wait for whatever other book I was working on to be done, so I could get back to this story full-time like I'd promised myself I could after a break from it. I just couldn't seem to give up on it, even though there were parts of me that felt that no story means that much in the grand scheme of things.

You mention in your author bio that you couldn't find books about kids who were "as uncomfortable being a girl" as you were. What drove you to finally write that story yourself?

The word "finally" in this question doesn't apply, because it wasn't something I put off. I started writing this story as soon as I considered myself an adult, which was right after I got married, straight out of college. It was a milestone I'd reached where I felt like, Ah, now I can now look back on my childhood and consider it from a more mature perspective and write that story I promised myself I would. I couldn't wait to write it! Even as a kid I remember thinking, When you grow up, you have to write about your childhood, how magical it is, how much fun you have, about the amazing place we live, our family, Mickey, how it feels to be this boy/girl person that no one understands. Back then, I saw my childhood as simply magical, or should I say mostly magical; yes, I spent a lot of time being unhappy being a girl, being mad at my mom for making me be that girl, and we had to walk on eggshells around my dad when he got mad, but other than that, I thought my family and my life were pretty much perfect. Other than that, those little things! Ha, yes, I minimized and compartmentalized. Anyway, there wasn't anything that "finally" drove me to write it. I couldn't wait to. It was more a matter of how long it took me to get it published, how many versions of it I had to write before then.

The character of Mickey is so vivid and complex. Was there a real Mickey in your life?

Yes, I got a doll for Christmas when I was Jess's age, and I cut his hair and turned him into a boy, made him talk and act things out, just like in North of Tomboy. Unlike Jess, I asked for the doll for Christmas that year. My mom had a habit of buying me and my sister dolls, even making us dolls, but I didn't usually like the ones she made or picked out, so I figured I'd pick one out that had good boy potential (I liked playing with dolls if they were boys, or action figures). I looked through the Sears Wish Book and JC Penney Christmas catalogue and found a doll wearing a blue sweater set that didn't look too girly, and I put that doll on my Christmas list. I didn't plan to make him talk, though; that happened spontaneously just like in the story. In real life, Mickey lasted many years. I continued being him, and enjoying being him (unlike Jess, who comes to see him as a habit she needs to break), until an embarrassingly old age.

How did you develop Mickey's distinctive voice and speech patterns? What was your process for making him feel like a separate character?

I know it sounds strange to say this, but I didn't develop Mickey's voice or speech patterns; they just came pouring out of me. And his voice and way of speaking was so different than mine that it surprised me, delighted me. Even once I ditched the doll, as Jess does, and just started "being" and speaking as Mickey all on my own, he still seemed "not me" like he was some weird little character I was channeling. And since there was a real Mickey in my life, and for so long (I can still be him around my mom and sister, but only them. Not when I try to be him, only when he just spontaneously pipes up, and only once in a while. Weird, I know), I had absolutely no problem hearing his voice in my head while writing the book. I could imagine the things he'd say and the way he'd say them, even remember things he actually said.

Conveying that he was a separate character from Jess was hard. How I did it was something that evolved. I had to figure out ways to cue when Jess was on versus when Mickey was on. Obviously Mickey speaks in such a distinctive way that you'd never mistake his dialogue for Jess's, but sometimes he's doing things and not speaking--of course really it's Jess doing the things as Mickey--and that could be tricky, had to be shown by Jess's body language cuing Mickey, like Jess's upper lip that forms a little beak when he's "on." It's almost like when people have multiple personalities and they switch, have totally different mannerisms and voices.

How did you balance writing about serious themes like gender identity and family dynamics while maintaining the humor and lightness of childhood?

Glad you think I accomplished that! As a pretty serious kid (except for Mickey) and someone who tends to analyze and dwell on heavy things, I worried it might be too much or that people wouldn't think Mickey was as funny as my family did. But I tried to keep it simple and honest (bluntness is often funny, I think), because the feedback I got on my first versions of this story was that it read like memoir or maybe it should be YA, that it seemed like a lot for middle graders, too deep, with topics that are a bit mature. Even with a 9/10-year-old main character they'd say that, which I didn't get, because we all deal with stuff that we're not mature enough for growing up (don't we?), and we have to try to make sense of it anyway. But I was like, no, I want this to be for middle graders; they're the ones who could use this, not people who've already made it through that stage. So I tried to make it younger, simpler, to stay true to Jess's age and how I was then. I think the whole spirit of Mickey that infuses the story helps to keep things light.

How do you think Jess's story resonates with contemporary discussions about gender identity and expression?

It really does resonate. It's very timely with all that's going on in our world with the controversy of puberty blockers, parents being accused of child abuse for letting their trans kids make certain changes before they're eighteen, gender neutral bathrooms, transgender athletes looking for opportunities to play but people concerned about the safety and fairness of that... And I think what's interesting about Jess's story is that, because of the time period it's set in (early 70s), it's a story that's stripped of all the labels and terms and lingo that people tend to get caught up in now, which makes it easier for those uncomfortable with LGBTQ topics to read and take it in, without any jargon turning them off or that's too new or hard for them to understand. At least that's what I hope. I hope readers can just see the humanness and the pain, the distress really, of a child who's confused and questioning and uncomfortable in their skin, and that they're not making it up--they truly feel that.

What advice would you give to kids who, like Jess, feel pressure to be someone they're not?

The world--and your gender--isn't as black-n-white as some people might make it seem it is or should be. You don't have to be a girl or a boy, either masculine or feminine. You can be both at the same time, in some ways masculine and in other ways feminine. Or you can be masculine sometimes, and feminine other times. You can also feel like neither. You don't have to find a label for yourself. And if you do, or have already, you can change your mind! Things aren't set in stone, fixed and decided for all time. People often change. So be patient, don't rush to a judgement on yourself, feel like you have to decide who or what you are at 10 or 11 or 12 or whatever age you might be. And don't let anyone tell you what you are, or that who/what you are is wrong. Don't feel you have to be fake to be "right" (for them). Be right for you, be true to yourself. Be the way that makes you feel good inside. Every morning just wake up and be who you honestly feel you are that day. If that changes, if you feel differently, if you one day know, that's fine. But you don't have to know exactly or have a word for what you are either. You can just be your own kind of girl or boy, or neither or both, or just your own weird indescribable but loveable you! A person, a human--a brave, growing, living, always changing YOU.

Lastly, if you can find the words to talk about it, and if you can be brave enough, it always helps to talk about things with another person, too. Find someone you feel safe with, someone you trust. If you're not sure you're brave enough (yet), or you can't find the words, or you don't know anyone you feel safe enough with, it often helps to write about it. Sometimes writing/journaling can help you try things out and find the words to talk about something. Or you can write someone about it instead of having to talk to them about it.

What’s next?

The next book in this series, where Jess is about to turn twelve, at the end of her sixth-grade year!